pesky beings...
hoomerick6: hello there....besides referfring to "old gods" is there a good way to describe archons?hoomerick6: sorry


Matthew Ouroboros: well the best translation would be "the powers".. i.e. the powers of this world.. you know like an archenemy is a really poweful enemy..same root.. there are different phrases you find people using.. rulers of this world, princes of this world... remember Jesus is tempted to become one, basically, when the tempter says he can give hm "power" over all the earth


hoomerick6: K
hoomerick6: which is kinda like the old gods...if you see them as exmbodying certian "powers".....like zeus lighting..etc...


Matthew Ouroboros: what is the word I am looking for..they are like overseers in the system of slavery

hoomerick6: ah ...I knwo what you mean..I cant think if there is a specific word...hoomerick6: you mean literally one who would crack a whip?


Matthew Ouroboros: yeah that would be the idea

Matthew Ouroboros: but above all they are proud, or rather they are pride.. just a little less proud than the demiurge himself, whom the Letter of Peter to Philip calls "the arrogant one"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archon
Gnostic ArchonsIn late antiquity some variants of Gnosticism used the term Archon to refer to several servants of the Demiurge, the "creator god" that stood between the human race and a transcendent God that could only be reached through gnosis. In this context they have the role of the angels and demons of the Old Testament.

The Egyptian Gnostic Basilideans accepted the existence of an archon called Abraxas who was the prince of 365 spiritual beings (Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses, I.24). The Orphics accepted the existence of seven archons: Iadabaoth or Ialdabaoth (who created the six others), Iao, Sabaoth, Adonaios, Elaios, Astaphanos and Horaios (Origen, Contra Celsum, VI.31). Ialdabaoth had a head of a lion, just like Mithraic Kronos (Chronos), Persian Zervan (Zurvan) and Vedic Narasimha, a form of Vishnu. Their wrathful nature was mistaken as evil. The snake wrapped around them is Ananta (Sesha) Naga (mythology).

The term now appears fairly frequently as the title of rulers in English language stories, shows, and games of the science fiction and fantasy genres. (The Invisibles, for example.) It is also a common title in collegiate fraternity and sorority organizations.


hoomerick6: K thanks


SO in conclusion Archons are like nasty overseers sent by the Demi Urge....one could say the "old Gods"...like zeus...etc
HYPOSTASIS of THE ARCHONS

http://altreligion.about.com/library/bl_nephilim.htm

Nephilim (Grigori, Watchers)
Alternative Religions Resource Guides
Alternative Religion/ Resources
"It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful. And when the angels, the sons of heaven beheld them, they became enamored of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children. Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabitated; teaching them sorcery, incantations, all the secret things which are done in the heavens."

"The origination of the Nephilim begins with a story of the fallen angels. Shemhazai, an angel of high rank, led a sect of angels in a descent to earth to instruct humans in righteousness. The tutelage went on for a few centuries, but soon the angels pined for the human females. After lusting, the fallen angels instructed the women in magic and conjuring, mated with them, and produced hybrid offspring: the Nephilim. " Nephilim at Encyclopedia Mythica
"The early rabbis and church fathers never considered that Genesis 6:4 refers to a failure to keep the "faithful" lines of the godly Seth from mingling with the worldly line of Cain. The "bene ha Elohim" (sons of God) also never refer to men in the Old Testament, only angels. "Who were the Nephilim?

"When men began to increase on earth and daughters were born to them, the divine beings saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. The LORD said, 'My breath shall not abide in man forever, since he too is flesh; let the days allowed him be one hundred and twenty years.' It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth - when the divine beings cohabited with the daughters of men, who bore them offspring. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown." - Genesis 6:1-4
"This is the only account of the watchers in the Bible. Isaiah 14:12-15 talks of the fall of the "day-star, son of morning," which implies that there was a revolt, and the "day-star" was cast into the abyss, but this may be a reference to early Canaanite or Phoenician myths. "Watchers/Nephilim (Naphidim)

"The Hebrew word for giants (nephilum) literally means the fallen-down-ones because these tall celestial beings fell from the sky. Their half-breed progeny and their descendants are often mentioned in the early books of the Old Testament until the last of them were finally killed off. They were known as the Rephaim [Hebrew for 'phantoms'], Emim, Anakim, Horim, Avim, and Zamzummim." The Nephilim (A collection of quotes and comments from a number of sources.)
"The term translated "the Sons of God" is, in the Hebrew, B'nai HaElohim , "Sons of Elohim," which is a term consistently used in the Old Testament for angels, and it is never used of believers in the Old Testament. It was so understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, by the Septuagint translators in the 3rd century before Christ, and by the early church fathers." Mischievous Angels or Sethites? (from an evangelical Christian viewpoint. )


"A solution seems to consist in recognizing that the children were true human children of truly human fathers and mothers, but that all were possessed and controlled by evil spirits. That is, these fallen angelic "sons of God" accomplished their purposes by something equivalent to demon possession, indwelling the bodies of human men, and then also taking (or "possessing") the bodies of the women as well. " Nephilim: The Giants of Old


"The off-spring of this union between the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" were so extraordinary that it indicates an unusual parentage. In no way could the progenitors of such beings be ordinary humans." Sons of God, Daughters of Men
More Articles and Essays:
Genesis: Nephilim, Dominance and Liberty Moral allegory.
Those nasty Nephilim
Ashes of Angels Speculation.
Texts, gospels, and other source material:
The Book of Giants (1 Enoch)
Of course Different schools see different things.....

Valentinus ( văləntē'nəs) , fl. c.135–c.160, founder of the Valentinians, the most celebrated of the Gnostic sects (see Gnosticism) of the 2d cent. The little that is known of his life is found in the works of early Christian theologians who refuted him, such as St. Irenaeus and Clement of Alexandria. Probably born in Egypt, Valentinus received his education in Alexandria and after c.135 taught in Rome, where he attracted brilliant converts. Valentinus viewed ultimate reality as a procession of aeons, 33 in all, issuing in pairs from the primal aeons, abyss and silence. From these came mind and truth, in turn engendering word (logos) and life. The thirtieth aeon, Sophia, by her inordinate desire to penetrate the abyss, caused great disorder within the pleroma (divine realm). Her passion was banished to a formless existence outside the pleroma. It is for the restoration of order and the salvation of the progeny issuing from the expelled passion that the last three aeons are produced—Christ, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus the Savior, who is the "common fruit" of the pleroma. Ruler of the outcast world is the proud Demiurge, identified with the deity of the Old Testament, who created the forms of life by which man is ensnared. Jesus appears in the world to reveal the knowledge (gnosis) that will restore man to the divine order. Valentinus wrote letters, homilies, and psalms, of which fragments survive. The recently discovered Coptic manuscript "Gospel of Truth" may be by Valentinus.

Irenaeus, Saint ( īrĭnē'əs) , c.125–c.202, Greek theologian, bishop of Lyons, and one of the Fathers of the Church. Born in Asia Minor, he was a disciple of St. Polycarp. Irenaeus went to Rome to plead for leniency toward the Montanists (see Montanism) and for those Eastern Christians who were threatened with excommunication because they did not observe the Roman date for Easter. He remained in the West and died in Gaul. Irenaeus was the earliest Father of the Church to systematize those Christian beliefs that would later be accepted as orthodox doctrine and is cited frequently by later theologians. Only two of his works survive—neither in the original Greek. The five-volume Against Heresies establishes Christian doctrine against the Gnostics and incidentally supplies much information on Gnosticism. The Epideixix is a concise exposition of Christian doctrine (tr. by J. P. Smith, Proof of the Apostolic Preaching, 1952). Feast: June 28.

renaeus
Saint Irenaeus (c. 130 - 202 ) was bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul , which is now Lyons , France . He is recognized as a saint by both the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church, and his writings were formative in the early development of Christian theology. His feast day is June 28. The Catholic Church considers him a Father of the Church. He was a disciple of Polycarp, who himself was a disciple of John the Evangelist.

Biography
Irenaeus is thought to have been a Greek from Polycarp's hometown of Smyrna in Asia Minor, now Izmir, Turkey. He was brought up in a Christian family, rather than converting as an adult, and this may help explain his strong sense of orthodoxy. Irenaeus was one of the first Christian writers to use the principle of apostolic succession to refute his opponents.
Irenaeus is remembered as the second bishop of Lyons, although there is no clear evidence that he ever officially assumed the episcopal duties. The first bishop, Pothinus, was martyred around 177 during persecutions under Marcus Aurelius, when Irenaeus was visiting Rome.
Irenaeus is remembered as a martyr, although there is no evidence for how he died, presumably shortly after the turn of the third century. He was buried under the church of Saint John's in Lyons, which was later renamed St. Irenaeus. His tomb and his remains were destroyed in 1562 by the Calvinist Huguenots. The remains of Leonardo da Vinci and Kepler, among others, also were lost in the religious wars of those times.

Writings
Irenaeus wrote a number of books, but the most important that survives is the five-volume On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis, normally referred to as Adversus Haereses (English: Against Heresies). Only fragments in its original Greek exist, but a complete copy exists in a wooden Latin translation, made shortly after its publication in Greek, and Books IV and V are present in a literal Armenian translation.
The purpose of Against Heresies is to refute the teachings of various gnostic groups. Until the discovery of the Library of Nag Hammadi in 1945, Against Heresies was the best surviving description of Gnosticism.
In Book II, ch. 22, par. 5, he gives an intriguing note about Jesus being seen by several witnesses in Asia in his older age after crucifixion: ...but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord, [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan. Some of them, moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement.
In Book III, ch 12, par. 12: ...they have apostatized in their opinions from Him who is God, and imagined that they have themselves discovered more than the apostles, by finding out another god; and [maintained] that the apostles preached the Gospel still somewhat under the influence of Jewish opinions, but that they themselves are purer [in doctrine], and more intelligent, than the apostles.
Irenaeus cites from most of New Testament canon, as well as the noncanonical works 1 Clement and The Shepherd of Hermas, however he makes no references to Philemon, 2 Peter, 3 John and Jude. Irenaeus was the first Christian writer to list all four and exactly four of the now canonical Gospels as divinely inspired, possibly in reaction to Marcion's edited version of Gospel of Luke, which he asserted was the one and only true gospel.
His works were published in English in 1885 in the Ante-Nicene Fathers collection.

His theology
The central point of Irenaeus' theology is the unity of God, in opposition to the Gnostics' division of God into a number of divine " Aeons", and their distinction between the "High God" and the wicked " Demiurge" who created the world. Irenaeus uses the Logos theology he inherited from Justin Martyr, but prefers to speak of the Son and the Spirit as the "hands of God". Christ, for him, is the invisible Father made visible.
His emphasis on the unity of God is reflected in his corresponding emphasis on the unity of salvation history. Irenaeus repeatedly insists that God created the world and has been overseeing it ever since. Everything that has happened is part of his plan for humanity. The essence of this plan is maturation: Irenaeus believes that humanity was created immature, and God intended his creatures to take a long time to grow into his likeness. Thus, Adam and Eve were created as children. Their Fall was thus not a full-blown rebellion but a childish spat, a desire to grow up before their time and have everything now.
Everything that has happened since has therefore been planned by God to help humanity overcome this and grow up. The world has been designed by God as a difficult place, where human beings are forced to make moral decisions - only in this way can they mature. Irenaeus likens death to the whale that swallowed Jonah: it was only in the depths of the whale's belly that Jonah could turn to God and do his will. Similarly, death and suffering appear evil, but without them we could never come to know God.
The high point in salvation history is Jesus. Irenaeus believes that Christ would always have been sent, even if humanity had never sinned; but the fact that they did sin determines his role as a saviour. He sees Christ as the new Adam, who systematically undoes what Adam did: thus, where Adam was disobedient about the fruit of a tree, Christ was obedient even to death on the wood of a tree. Irenaeus is the first to draw comparisons between Eve and Mary, contrasting the faithlessness of the former with the faithfulness of the latter. In addition to reversing the wrongs done by Adam, Irenaeus thinks of Christ as "recapitulating" or "summing up" human life. This means that Christ goes through every stage of human life, from infancy to old age, and simply by living it, sanctifies it with his divinity. Irenaeus is therefore forced to argue that Christ did not die until he was quite old!
Irenaeus thus thinks that our salvation comes about, essentially, through the incarnation of God as man. He characterises the penalty for sin as death and corruption. God, however, is immortal and incorruptible, and simply by becoming united to human nature in Christ he conveys those qualities to us: they spread, as it were, like a benign infection. Irenaeus therefore understands the atonement of Christ as happening through his incarnation rather than his crucifixion, although the latter is an integral part of the former.

feel free to comment..ANYone...

Further links
http://altreligion.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utm.edu%2Fresearch%2Fiep%2Fg%2Fgnostic.htm

-- He who knows both knowledge and ignorance together, crosses death through ignorance and attains immortality through knowledge.