daath and the lies of the golden dawn

when we die we are no longer corporeal(have a body)...well duh!!!

Thus shock horror that can be a little disconcerting for some conciousneses........

sometimes the "no corporeal form" needs help to adjust.....

for instance lets say I was a drug addict...I snorted lysol powder for decades.....now in my incorporeal state I still have this craving....So I must be cleasnsed of this craving as well frankly I no longer have a nose to snort lysol with!!!

SO I must pass through the lake of fire/purgatory.....and be CLEANSED....Yes it is "fire" its not "un painful"......this idea can be applied to rapists...murderers...drug addicts...masturbators....and chicken f*#kers.....
This idea is related the idea of Judgment by the divine.....

(as we see it is largely impartial....you either need it or you dont...you createyou own "karma"...or need to snort lysol")

...or the egyptian weighingof the soul.

In kabbalah we can see this in the tarot card of judgement..which for me is placed between the path running from chockmah to binah (I do NOTuse the standard golden dawn tarot/kblh attribution..as its full ofcaccacca) This view of the lake of fire can be found in egyptian theology, hinduism, some forms of catholisim and the western mysteries. Well known occult writer Dion fortune covers this very topic in her book"Dion Fortune's Book Of The Dead" (formely know as "through the gatesof death")

Of course this flies in the face of fundys who embrace eternal damnation and punishment.......often fundys know more about hell fire and damnation than they do actual heaven or God. Of course the choice of the void at "daath" is a whole other issue....

I get this stuff from actually learning about other religions old bean....

In kabbalah we can see this in the tarot card of judgement..which for me is placed between the path running fromchockmah to binah (I do NOT use the standard golden dawn tarot/kblh attribution..as its full of cacca)

do you end up going through da'ath with judgement then, or do you find da'ath between Tiph and Keter?

daath or Knowledge...

.kether is flame..
.chockmah is oil....
binah is a lamp...
Daath is that which is illuminated....

Or

God....
God's message...
how God's message is pervayed (ie through "religion" etc)
the "seeker"

OR
the actor....
the tv show..
.the tv....
the viewer.....etc....

Da'ath as you probably know is before "judgment" ...and is within thevoid....as you say between tipareth and kether... (see doodle I did illustrating my point at top of the page).....the line between the "oil lamp" and the puddle of oil is the pathwaybetween chockmah (wisdom, the oil) and Binah (understanding, the lamp)..this is the "line of judegement"....that we face as we climb up to the top...backto "heaven"...

here is a convetional tree.....Da'ath is of course conventionally seen as psudo sephira (sphere...the circles on the tree are spheres..the tree is 3d..inspite of the 2ddiagram).....a gateway between.....as from geburah and chesed's pairing...above that is the void.....much likethe asteroid belt of our solar system.....the choice in daath is life or death......the void or ascent.....and there's much more.......interestingly enough......horus is sometimes placed at da'ath....There...that IS where I got it from......

CURSES on you, Hoom, for having an intelligent comeback for once. Or twice.

lol...

me)In kabbalah we can see this in the tarot cqard of judgement..which for me is placed between the path running from chockmah to binah (I do NOT use the standard golden dawn tarot/kblh attribution..as itsfull of cacca)

(you)Why do you think it's full of caca? Why replace the Empress with theJudgment card? What else do you flip around?

(me) Ok several reasons.

1. The Golden dawn and all "old gaurd" as they are known...19th century occultists worked in certain shared ways. They were a product of their time. One way this manifested is how they treated new seekers. They'd "root" out the good students from the bad by feeding them allcrap...lies...misinformation. The idea was that a good student would in practise see that they had been fed crap...and thus realise it!

Of course today this way of doing things isseen as archaic....yet many western mystery schools still cling to this wayof doing this....as opposed to just giving the student all the information...without misinformation...often with the provisio of when they are ready for it...

Qabbalah teaches us that all things are equal...nothing is superior toanything else. Thus the whole hierachy in dante's inferno...the bible....mystery schools etc are essentially literalism on crack....often such hierachies only existed due to misconceptions...such as the idea that "kether is more important..and full of the light of God than malkuth"....which is crapola.......or yes...sadly the limits of the printed page have created such hierachies...which is why I disagree with your dear wife's view on different levels of punishment... but this is a seperate issue..so another time

SO.....The Golden Dawn tarot tree attribution was a deliberate misinformationspread to new students.


2. People insist that there is no "right attribution" ok correct. TheGolden Dawn placemnt is only due to numbers. For instance we take the card number...and add 10. 10 is the intial numbers of spheres..so the paths begin at 11....to make 32 (the 10 spheres and the22 hebrew letters...and/or 22 trump cards) thus the magician goes at path11.....the devil does at path 23....etc. THIS IS THE ONLY REASON forplacement of the cards upon a tree of life in the "standard pattern."

3. The GD attribution works better for Magicians. Magicians that are seeking to "make themselves God". Thus the GD system works well with the mindset that is intent on MASTERY of the divine. The Divine to them is something I can say "hey there.....gimme gimme gimme"......a magic treasure chest you can take from...forever. Much like the thread about farming. Magicians are content to produce food on the land..and GET WHAT they want...the Divine is there to take from!

The attribution I use...works better for those that seek to harmonise. WHo seek UNION with the divine. Seek to become ONE. Again with the farming thread...people who seek to live WITH the land...not OFF it......

4. The attribution I use goes by meanings of the cards. Thus we place the moon card by the moon sphere!!! the sun by the sun....death goes by binah and geburah. Or Saturn(binah) and Mars(Geburah)...thus we see death is a feminine restricting energy card. Which does fit in verywell with Death herself. What is more restricting than death?

5. The attribution I use actually fits in with the cosmos! So we have themiddle pillar of eathe moon sun and stars.....JUST like it REALLY is!!!!!.....as opposed to the GD attribution which bears no resemblance to how the cosmos is!!!!Here is a diagram of the attribution I use....which is not known to many...I have only found 1 website online that really delves deep into this attribution... I have plans to make my ownwebsite...but its hardly a small project.

you)Da'ath is knowledge, and is within the Abyss. The Abyss is not aplace you would want to spend any time in.

(me)Da'ath as you probably know is before "judgment" ...and is within the void.... as you say between tipareth and kether...

(you)In the Void you face the pit or ascension, depending on what you managed to get straightened out so far on your way up the tree. Ifyou haven't Charioteered properly, you'll end up drifting down to theBlack Bothers...I don't understand why you would conclude that you could reach thesupernal triad before facing judgment? Judgement is about making atonement, and starting over again. It's a resultant, an effect, apassive. How do you actively transfer from understanding to wisdom?

(me) I didnt, read what I said....judgment is at the path between binah andchockmah.....it is PART of the supernal triangle....da'ath is before the supernal...

(you)What is the glowy bit beneath Kether in the doodle, is it Da'ath orTiphareth?

(me) this is daath..it is a standardway to show it...as its not a completecircle...also the symbols of mars and jupiter (geburah and chesed...severityand mercy) are below it!..I hope this answers your questions....lol....

Israel regardie himself said the "standard" attribution is crapola.......

meanings simple...the energys of the spheres....for instance....7 and8 mercury and venus.....netzach(venus) and hod(mercury) ..the path between we see is one of polarity,,,,these spheres are about intelelct and intution...emotion and logic......essentially the mundane polarity we face daily. This here we place the wheel offortune. Thats the meanings..the meanings of the tree....notnumbers. The numbers on the tree are and have always been arbitrary....why place the sun not near the sun? why not place themoon NEXT to the moon!.....etc....

But sadly I'm largely a beginner myself..this is not "my" system...itwas popularised by the kabbalst WG Gray....who was briefly a memeberof the golden dawn...and dion fortune's society of inner lightgroup. Gray revolutionised magic(k)....so much so....he's largelyunrecognised..a worker in the back room...few know of...but many owea debt to.....be they magicians or witches....Gray brought the english language to kabbalah. He threw out hebrew.

A great idea....as every language is holy. He argued one's native tongue would be the most powerful language one could use. Of coursethis is no good for people who cling to their hebrew....

Personally I am learning the hebrew at the moment...essentially withan effort to learn the basics...(golden dawn style hermetic) with aview to going on to a form of Gnostic kabblah.....

1st I need to do years of study of the "basics".....sigh....lol....

Gray's tarot attribution..where he got it from is shrowded in secrecy. He either made it up fully himself, or he got it from the Golden Dawn. In fact gray was ostrasised from the Golden dawn for revealing many secrets....such as this taort attribution.

Stuffy mystery schools such as the Golden Dawn claim to be workingfor all mankind....yet they seek to make themselves the elite...byHIDING and keeping info for themselves....and spreadingmisinformation. Ego is such a terrible thing....Many modern GD off shoots are still full of ego masturbators...and men unable to keep their dicks in their pants.

Chic cicero...(a bigname in publishing...if you havent heard his name) is one of these charletons...many women have accused him on seperate occaisons of him using his penis as an aide to helping intiates "get to the next level"...so to speak!...I wont even mention the OTO..and other formal Thelema schools!!!!

WG Gray worked and lived in england....but shared a life long friendship with Israel regardie. When gray's 1st pupil (who he subsequantly fell out with and later replaced with a south africanman "jacobus swart" ...who was well versed in lurianic kabbalah...which is the form MOST but not all modern jews use) RJStewart...went to visit regardie in USA as a go between the 2 kabbalists (gray and regardie).....Regardie intimated that indeed...the standard kabbalah tarot attribution was a "blind" given to new pupils..and that it was unused by those higher up in rank....

Gray claimed to be in contact with Dion Fortune after her death. With the help of her he also revolutionised magick as a whole. Gray was there in england when wicca 1st started growing beyond the seed planted by gardener. Gray helped create rituals that today every neo-pagan witch practises....such as rituals relating to the circle..the directions..the elements and the times of the year. He and some other witches

(gray was NOT a witch and hated the term...and claimed a fardifferent etymological origin for the word witch than most then andnow cling to...he claimed the word witch always was and is a negativeterm...and people needed to get hold of a decent ancient anglo saxonetymological dictionary!!!)

helped create what today witches and neopagans take for granted as "how witches do things"....of course gray is seldom mentioned..let alone known by witches.

Was Gray "perfect"? no he was far from it. At times he could be irrasible...and pig headed. His autobigraphy is called "the old sod"....for many reasons. Gray always wanted the image of 2 fingerssticking up in a V symbol on his tomb. In england this is a curse symbol, going back to Norman invasion of Engalnd; where the natives would use this sign to show the normans that they still had their "bow fingers". This V symbol placed backwards is of course thesymbol for "victory".....victory is netzach the 7th emanation. Venus...the Goddess within the earth...(especially if one reads the chemical wedding). a quite fitting epitaph forMr Gray........

Gray's legacy is largely unknown compared to Crowley or Fortune. But then he was never really one for creating a "persona" as crowley and fortune embraced.

Of the few books in print by Gray as the Sangreal Solidality series. This trilogy of books form a coherant kabbalstic system relating wholly to the holy grail...and sacred blood. In fact building on these books Gray created his own mystery school. TheSangreal Solidality. Though unlike the Golden Dawn etc this school had no formal structure..

(Gray HATED the old school secret societal structures..asjust as he had predicted...they became and are filled with selfinflated egos..and people who misuse and abuse power....)

Gray's schools are all over the world. Each one is different and were created by different people. The only thing they share in common is Gray's threadwork. To this day in their ritual halls some of these groups are said to leave an empty chair for Gray.Gray Died in the 1990's in the english copuntryside.

An interesting "old fart"...who gave much....

was far from perfect...but tried his best....what more could you ask?